The Blind Spot That's Blocking Self-Awareness in Leadership

Eric Nitzberg:

Even though most seasoned executives recognize they might have blind spots, it's really hard to get light and visibility into those blind spots. So you might have a senior executive who is very confident or is going through a period of really high confidence, and they've gotten a bunch of feedback. I, you know, I've delivered to them the feedback from maybe 20 stakeholders that have said everything. They think that, you know, they could do better. Among other, and also the things they do well. But it's interesting to watch this kind of debate that the executive has in their own mind with whether those perceptions may or may not be accurate.

Steve Smith:

Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of Work Tech Weekly. I'm Steve Smith, Managing Director of Growth at Rep Cap.

My guest today spent years in ministry before he ever coached an executive, listening to people work through their hardest problems long before that became his job title. That background still shapes how he listens to a client now.

Eric Nitzberg is founder of Sierra Leadership, an executive coaching firm that works with senior leaders across industries.

Even the most successful executives carry more self-doubt than they let on. Imposter syndrome doesn't disappear as you climb the ladder. It just gets better hidden, and that makes it harder for leaders to talk about it, let alone work on it.

In this conversation, Eric and I get into why that self-doubt is so common at the top, and why real self-awareness is so hard to build even for leaders who know it matters. From there we talk about AI, where Eric has written candidly about companies getting leaner and more cautious with people investment even as they pour money into AI.

If you've ever wondered if AI coaches are actually good at what they do and where they fall apart, Eric makes the case for why there's still plenty of room for human coaches in the C-suite.

Let's get into it.

Eric, welcome to the podcast. Great to have you here.

Eric Nitzberg:

Yeah, great to be on the show.

Steve Smith:

Well, you know, you obviously it's just like you spend your day, you know, helping, you know, executives think more clearly. What's the leadership question that you personally keep coming back to these days?

Eric Nitzberg:

Oh wow. I will say. One topic that's top of mind is around self-doubt and imposter syndrome. I don't know, maybe that says something about me. I don't know if that's more about me or if it's more about my clients, but probably a little bit of both. But it does seem to be in this environment with all the volatility and the intensity and everything.

I think these executive jobs are harder than they've ever been. And I think that does bring up these kinds of emotions for a lot of leaders.

Steve Smith:

Well, you know, it's interesting that you bring up the term imposter syndrome because it's just like, it seems like that term kind of exploded, like right around COVID and it seemed to come up among some of my, you know, younger coworkers and clients. I'm kind of surprised that's something that is popping up, you know, and maybe senior executive conversations is what do you attribute that to?

Is that everything going on with AI or is there something else at play you think?

Eric Nitzberg:

Yeah I actually would say that it's, it is a common belief that, you know, the more senior and seasoned that you are, the more confident you become. And that is just not true. I don't think it's ever been true, actually. That is, you know, these very senior leaders, CEOs, big company, senior executives.

They're not advertising their imposter syndrome or self-doubt and for obvious reasons, right? You don't wanna start an all hands meeting with a hundred thousand people by talking about how you're not sure if you're up to the job. But privately they do experience it. Maybe not all the time, but there are seasons of self-doubt.

And I can even remember one of my early clients who this was like 15 plus years ago. Who said to me and he had just moved into a role leading a big organization that what he wanted out of the coaching. Was not, it wasn't that he wanted to be more competent at the job, it was that he wanted to feel confident that he was able to do the job.

It was all about the self-doubt. And so I think it's ubiquitous and to your point, I think it's gotten more so because of the global environment, you know, with all of the things that are going on, including AI.

Steve Smith:

Yeah, I mean, I guess we live in a time filled with uncertainty. Got many sources. It seems to me that like I was at a conference recently and we were, I was going around and obviously everyone was talking about AI, and it sort of struck me.

It's just like no one here really knows what they're doing. They're just figuring it out and pretending like they know that they know everything. And that actually was very reassuring. It's just like, okay, I'm not the only one here who's lost in the woods?

Eric Nitzberg:

Well, I think, and I think that is part of the prescription for imposter syndrome is to realize that you're not the only one. There was a study that I was reading, I think it was published in 2024, that over 70% of American CEOs experience imposter syndrome, and the number is actually a little bit lower for executives at large, but it's, it is pretty ubiquitous and it does make you feel better, at least to know that you're not alone.

Steve Smith:

That actually makes me feel a lot better. This is a, been a very reassuring conversation

Eric Nitzberg:

I hope this is therapeutic for you.

Steve Smith:

I feel. I feel so seen. Well, well, cool. Eric, let's start and talk a little bit about your origin story. You've got a very interesting background that includes everything from studying Chinese language and literature, theology, communication, coaching. You've had a lot of different stops. It said that like a career trajectory is never a straight line. It's more kinda like this, but, you know, your career trajectory is one of the more interesting ones I've seen recently.

Eric Nitzberg:

Would you believe it if I told you that when I was 18, I planned all of that out? You know, starting with Chinese language, followed by theology, followed by executive coaching. No,

Steve Smith:

If it were anyone else, it would... I, you know. No, but with you. Absolutely.

Eric Nitzberg:

Thanks for that. No, I have definitely had an unusually twisty turny kind of career path. And I guess I've been very fortunate in that I really have tried to do what called to me and what I was passionate about, what I was most interested in. And that seems to have worked out well for me.

But, yeah I do feel like even though it sounds so diverse, there have been some through lines for me in all of that. One of them is actually around language. I've always been very keenly interested in language and so. As you mentioned, I studied Chinese. I was a Chinese language and literature major in college.

I studied French and German in high school and a little bit in college. And then getting, and then I had a whole career in the ministry and of course. Ministering is all. So much of it is about words and communication and listening. So whether it's public speaking or teaching or counseling, I mean, these are all involve like a really intimate, important uses of language to help people.

And I feel like the same is true of executive coaching. I didn't actually realize this when I got into coaching, but the way that coaches can like. Slice words and meaning so carefully, and it's actually really fascinating. You really do make use of words like in such, I don't know, profound ways as a coach or ways that impact others.

So I do think that's been one of the through lines for.

Steve Smith:

Well, I think it's interesting and I imagine that you run into this with your clients, that sometimes a specific word choice can be very revealing about what their psychological frame of mind is at that moment.

Eric Nitzberg:

A hundred percent. A hundred percent. And I think on the other side, if I am trying to convey something. There are these little shades of gray that matter. You know, that for example, if I've listened to a long, sometimes I'll have a, particularly with more senior executives, sometimes.

I'll listen to them for 30 minutes before I say anything. 'cause they're unpacking some sort of incredibly complex, thorny strategic problem or personal feelings or whatever. So proving to them that I really heard what they said requires a sort of, I guess, a sort of deftness with language and not just the listening, but also the, you know, framing back.

And so. Yeah, it really is. I mean, a lot of leadership is about language too, if you think about it. I mean, so much of it is about words, how we use words and how we listen.

Steve Smith:

Well, and ideally that's the hallmark of great leadership is you listen before you speak.

Eric Nitzberg:

Wow. You just said a mouthful there. That's it. That's, you've just like summarized the whole, like the whole leadership journey for many leaders is to try to figure out how to do that.

Steve Smith:

Well, well, you know, you've in addition to, you know, your, that your interesting background before you became a coach. I mean, you've had like serious executive and leadership roles before moving into, you know, kind of the coaching side of things. What made you decide to make that switch and start Sierra leadership?

Eric Nitzberg:

Yeah, that was a, that was definitely a journey. That was not a there wasn't like a, an epiphany that happened. It was over a period of a few years. I started to realize that I was at the end of my journey, I guess, doing church ministry work. I was getting burned out and I got to a point where I didn't really see a path forward to stay in that work.

And I had a couple different executive coaches who had worked with me in my later years in the ministry when I was serving in some executive roles there. And I really loved being on the receiving end of coaching and so I studied, started studying coaching while I was still a church executive.

And I just loved it. I just really, I used it in the way that I was managing the people under me and started using it in my ministry work. And so. When I left the ministry, I didn't know what I was gonna do, but I kind of just fell into some coaching work sort of organically. One of, one of our members at the church was leading the communication program at the Stanford Graduate School of Business.

So around the time that I left, he asked me if I would like to do some coaching at Stanford, which was like a great, you know. Start to a coaching career at Stanford Business School.

Steve Smith:

Pretty good.

Eric Nitzberg:

Yeah. And there was, there were some others that just kind of fell into my lap early on, and it took me a while, like I was trying some other things at the same time.

But eventually it became clear to me that's really what I wanted to do.

Steve Smith:

Well, you know, it seems like coaching is having, I guess, for lack of a better term, a bit of a moment now. And I think that, I mean, coaching has always been something that has been sort of, the privilege of. You know, senior leadership and executive class organizations will invest in coaches because the ROI is there, but it seems like, the reach of coaching has been expanding partially in conjunction with technology.

I think that, you know, I know that in you know, workplace technology circles, you saw more solutions about around a decade ago, start to try to field. Coaching at more of a mass level. That's certainly. Kind of taking off now with AI, but let me start by talking. I want to get a frame of reference for kind of how you approach coaching because, you know, I've been in coaching sessions before, maybe not everyone, all of our listeners have. How do you like to approach that? What do you like to see happen in those sessions and kind of walk through what would like a, an actual like coaching engagement typically entail for you and your clients?

Eric Nitzberg:

Yeah, a typical coaching engagement usually starts at about a six month commitment, and it begins with getting to know each other me trying to understand the context. The team that they're leading, the organization they're in, what are their goals? What are the outcomes that they want to achieve?

There's sometimes a fair amount of work that goes into goal setting in the beginning, depending on how clear they are on what their goals are and for some engagements I'll also start with an assessment where I interview a bunch of stakeholders around the leader to try to. Get perspective on how they see the leader's strengths and development areas.

And so then that goes into a report, an anonymized report that the leader gets and that can also help inform the goals. So that's some of the work that's upfront, you know, just building trust and getting a sense of where we're going. And then the coaching sessions themselves. And it's usually, you know, typically a couple of hours a month, something like that.

It can vary. But the coaching sessions themselves typically fall into one of three buckets. Either I am asking questions and trying to listen and reflect back what I'm hearing. Try hold open a big space for the client to do their best thinking. So that's one way it can look. And actually you'd be surprised, like how much, how valuable just that can be because a lot of these folks don't have time or space to really slow down and unpack like their thorniest problems.

The second bucket, or the second way coaching sessions can look is more advisory on my part. So I will make suggestions bring perspectives from other leaders. Here's what I see happening, you know, across industries. Or I can bring like techniques or leadership models. And then the third way that it looks is if I'm coaching someone on their communication, I'll often do role playing with them so I can be their audience and they can practice their.

All hands presentation or their media engagement or some tricky conversation with their board chair, whatever it is, they can kind of hash it out with me first and I can give them feedback and they could try it again and hopefully, you know, improve on it. So I would say, just to wrap up on this thought, I would say coaching, I think feels a little bit like a therapist.

I've had many clients that say, oh yeah, you're like my therapist. So it has that even though it tends to be more focused on work issues it has some of that flavor. A good coaching relationship feels probably something like a friendship. And also it could feel like talking to your manager, assuming that your manager is someone who cares and also pushes you.

Steve Smith:

All right.

Eric Nitzberg:

And so that's like a quick overview of what coaching is like.

Steve Smith:

Well, and you work with some very successful, you know, in some cases well-known senior executives. What is it that successful people get wrong about themselves as leaders typically?

Eric Nitzberg:

Well, I mean, we started the conversation with one of them, which is they think that they're the only one that has such and such a problem, particularly if it's a personal issue, like self-doubt or imposter syndrome. I think that's pretty. Pretty ubiquitous. Say another thing that is pretty common is, you know, we all have blind spots and I think that, even though most seasoned executives recognize they might have blind spots, it's really hard to get light and visibility into those blind spots. So you might have a senior executive who is very confident or is going through a period of really high confidence, and they've gotten a bunch of feedback.

I, you know, I've delivered to them the feedback from maybe 20 stakeholders that have said everything. They think that, you know, they could do better. A among other, and also the things they do well. But it's interesting to watch this kind of debate that the executive has in their own mind with whether those perceptions may or may not be accurate.

And in some ways, you know, they'll, you, the most typical scenario is they'll take in some of it and they'll disagree with some of it. But oftentimes, you know, we're working on the same issues for years or decades. You know, if you're a really bad listener in your thirties, you're probably not an exceptional listener in your forties.

You know, maybe you got better. Sometimes people make big changes but it's more often the sort of slow, steady changes. And so I think, I guess what I'm trying to say is it's that sort of self-awareness about how they need to improve and how important it is that I think can frequently get missed.

Steve Smith:

Do you think that self-awareness or lack thereof is one of the biggest obstacles in the way of success for senior leaders?

Eric Nitzberg:

I do. Yeah. I, and it's so important because it's partly awareness of who you are, your core values, your strengths, how you could improve. But another part of it is the awareness of how you impact other people. And that those are things that don't really reside within you, that resides, that's in the eye of the beholder.

So it, the leader, you know, if I'm the CEO, I don't get to tell you how I impact you. You tell me. And that requires a level of humility and a level of listening and empathy that many leaders do have. But a lot of leaders don't. And a lot of leaders are somewhere in the middle on a journey to developing that.

Steve Smith:

Well, and. You know, I've been, you know, in senior leadership roles, you know, been an entrepreneur. That was always the hardest thing for me is being self-aware and understanding, oh, what, you know, I said that, but what was heard was something that I never intended. And I, it made me, I mean, when I, when it finally got through, I realized, wow, I've done a lot of things that. I never intended to do that had an impact on people that I, you know, I need to completely reevaluate the way I'm approaching things, and that was really hard to do.

Eric Nitzberg:

It is. It is really hard to do. It's hard work. I mean, GR growing is hard work.

And sometimes painful work for people. Gosh I've delivered some of these big 360 degree reports and I've had people tell me, you know, a month later that like, that's been the big thing or months later, like, that's really bothering them.

They're really struggling with it, but it really does help them grow. And so I think it takes a lot of courage to go through that kind of a process.

Steve Smith:

Yeah. Absolutely. I completely agree. And you know, one of the things that you write about is this concept of viewpoint agility, which it seems like we're living in a time where maybe. There needs to be more viewpoint agility across across the spectrum. But it's interesting when you, the way you phrase it, like talking about, you know, holding a confident view about things, but staying genuinely open to changing it, which may sound simple, but is also incredibly hard.

How do you actually build that into someone?

Eric Nitzberg:

Yeah. Would they have to want to build that? And that's, I think that's the fundamental challenge at the heart of it, is do you want to challenge your own perspectives? Do you want others to challenge your perspectives? Or in your secret heart of hearts, you know, maybe you say the right things, you know, maybe even with me, they're saying the right things.

But in your secret heart of hearts, are you really interested in the possibility that you're wrong? About something and that somebody else might have a good perspective on it, that's, that would be different than yours. So. I mean, I think one way for leaders to develop that is to try to, and I know this is maybe typical leadership advice, but I don't think it's followed as often as it maybe should be, is to try to surround yourself with people that do bring different perspectives than your own and different styles than your own.

I mean, this is one of the learnings of the value of diversity in the workplace is not just about, you know, it's not just about having people that look different from each other it's about people who fundamentally see the world differently and think differently. And then in the C-suite or in the board, they bring those different perspectives and those different thoughts forward and it is through the sometimes messy dialogue or debate or even argument that happens because of those different perspectives that if people can listen and not just talk.

That they can together come up with an idea that's better than what any of them would've come up with individually or a strategy that's more holistically viable than anything that any of them could have come up with. So I think if you surround yourself with different perspectives that are pushing on you, that over time will work on you, you know that will help.

In terms of things that leaders can do within themselves, I do think it comes down to a commitment and a practice around listening. You have to somehow separate the task of listening from the task of responding, so that when you're listening, you are more of you have more of a quiet mind and that you really are trying to understand.

And weigh the potential validity of the other perspective and to put on the shelf temporarily. The fact that you wholeheartedly disagree with it it's really requires a lot of mental discipline. Like really smart people have a really hard time with this, but I do think that's the path and that's what I advise leaders to try to do.

Steve Smith:

Well, I can see how that would be incredibly powerful. But, you know, needing to partition your mental hard drive enough to be

Eric Nitzberg:

Great way to say

Steve Smith:

Do that is an incredibly challenging task. Well, I mean, I think also in terms of like partitioning mental hard drives let's talk a little bit about AI because there's things going on. There's a few things going on with AI. Perhaps you've heard of those.

Eric Nitzberg:

AI, I'm not sure what is that?

Steve Smith:

So I mean, some of it is what, you know, how it's transforming the workplace, you know, which I'd like to start with, but also just like you're in a discipline with coaching that is also being disrupted by AI. And so I'm, I will also be curious to kind of get your thoughts on that part as well. But one of the things you recently wrote was about how companies are. Heavily investing in AI while at the same time getting more thrifty on the people part, which is something that I have noticed and written about a lot in my newsletters. And, but you posit those things aren't a coincidence. So what's your, what's your take on that when you're looking at that?

Where do you land just on what that means?

Eric Nitzberg:

I mean, I think there are some, some different related forces over the last few years that have been driving that. There has definitely been a drive towards cost savings over the last two or three years. And I mean, I don't mean with respect to AI investments, that's kind of off by itself.

And I say that's related because I think the ballooning costs for AI, especially for the big tech companies are. Related to what, what's asking for the driving down of other costs. But there has been this cultural change, and I think it comes out of Wall Street. I think it's just pervaded across boards and leadership teams over the last two or three years.

Even with companies that have really high margins that you need to be more disciplined around spend. And it doesn't matter if you're doing really well on the revenue side. Like we all should be really accountable to not just be lighting cash on fire. And so that's one phenomenon.

And then of course there is AI and AI is one way I've heard it described is that AI is fundamentally, know, it's often anthropomorphized. It's often, you know, people talk about it like it's a person, but it really is advanced automation.

It's just what it is. It's advanced automation of cognitive work.

And so as such, there's an expectation that, you know, you can, the more you adopt AI, that you can drive all kinds of efficiencies. And yes, over time you're gonna start reducing the need for different kinds of human work and also even some entire human jobs. So I think these things are all happening at the same time.

And you know, as a result of that I think the people are feeling very squeezed. And then, you know, companies are making huge investments to try to get AI to work.

Steve Smith:

Well, and it's just, I mean, it's so crazy how these things are completely tangled up together because we're coming out of. A period, kind of going back to the, you know, the 2008 financial crisis where interest rates plummeted to essentially zero for about a 15 year period at the same time that, you know, SaaS technologies took off and you saw sort of an explosion of knowledge work.

You saw basically a business model that was, oh, you can raise money. And hire a bunch of people and grow, and you never have to be profitable. Great, let's do that. And so that worked for almost a decade and a half. And then when interest rates went up, or some would say maybe reset to sort of a normal level everything changed and businesses were encouraged, oh, you need to cut 20% of your headcount.

And then they did that and discovered, oh. They rewarded our stock price for more profitable than ever. Maybe we need to cut more. And then you threw AI on top of this, and it seems like we're in this world where you, there's not only just a lot of uncertainty and anxiety about AI, but you also have the. Cuts on the human side. I mean, where does this all end?

Eric Nitzberg:

Well, it never, I don't think it ever ends, but we're in some kind of a, of an evolution, I think, too. We're in the midst of this unprecedented automation phase of automation. I do think there will be more jobs created than people are afraid of. You know, coming out the other side of this but I mean, as we all read about there's a concern that just the type of automation and the extent of auto automation is gonna be very significant with AI and in places where we never expected it or didn't expect it to happen so fast.

And so. I don't know. I mean, I don't think anybody knows where we're gonna be in five years or 10 years. I think there are, you know, a lot of people are still gonna be working, but it's gonna be very different. You know, I was just talking to somebody recently about. I don't know how old you are, but I was around when computers started showing up, like in schools and stuff, and, but if you think back I have a very dear friend who's in his, I guess he's in his early eighties, maybe his 80, and he was saying, yeah, when he was little there were no computers.

And so think about the number of jobs that exist now that involve computers that are based on computers that. So I know people are saying AI is different, you know, this is gonna be different this time because it's so much more expansive in what it can do. And maybe that's true, but I do think that there will be jobs in the future.

I think they're just gonna look very different than a lot of the jobs that we have today.

Steve Smith:

And I think that's one, that's what I think we're all hoping, and I think when I talk to people who are much smarter than I am, they point out that every time you have a technological revolution, whether it was, you know, the, you know, the personal computer or. You know, the industrial Revolution, it's just like, there is social disruption, but ultimately it creates more jobs coming out the other side of it.

So I'm clinging onto that hope, but you know, as you said,

Eric Nitzberg:

As they say.

Steve Smith:

Yeah, that's very true. Well, let's, I mean, let's dial this in a little bit more. Finally around coaching specifically one of the things that, I'm sure you've also heard about is the number of people who are more than happy to just take out their phone, dial up their, you know, AI of choice, hit the microphone button and just start talking to it and get coaching that way.

Eric Nitzberg:

Yeah,

Steve Smith:

Discuss. How do you feel about that?

Eric Nitzberg:

Well, I honestly, I actually feel pretty good about it which I don't know if that surprises you but I use AI. I use AI like that. All the time. I mean, my wife would tell you I'm on AI daily and I have had lengthy, like two hour discussions about topics that I'm interested in. I think that, I think to understand AI in coaching vis of, you know, versus human coaches.

I think you have to look at what are the relative strengths of AI and the relative strengths of human executive coaches. And so I think what's evolving is going to be more of a differentiation between use cases where AI makes sense in coaching and use cases where humans make sense in coaching.

So there are now AI coaches in the marketplace that are more than just a chat bot, but that have been tuned to act like a coach, ask coaching questions, trained people in basic managerial skills, like they can do all kinds of things. Some, one of them I was hearing about recently has now access to a lot of Harvard Business Review content.

So it's schooled on the latest management theory. So these are gonna develop very quickly. So an a, an AI coach like that is great for scale because it's available to everyone, you know, cheaply or almost free. It's great for you know, constant availability. It's great for skill building.

Like an AI teaching someone how to delegate might do a great job, and it's probably not like the very best use of my time as a coach.

Steve Smith:

Right.

Eric Nitzberg:

And it's great for data. You know, if you want to if you are the head of HR of a company and you had, let's say you have 5,000 people that are all using an AI coach, you can get aggregated data across those conversations that tells you like what people are worrying about, what they're thinking.

Like there's a level of precision that's possible there. You could never get that from human coaches. So, all of that said, I think there's still a place for human coaches and you know, particularly, in conversations that in involve complex, like a high level of complexity, and the more that complexity is about the nuance of human interactions and human relationships, for example, in the C-suite, you know, conflict between the CEO and a board chair.

Like there are all kinds of things that at this point, at least, you would not want to trust an AI to advise you well or help you navigate that kind of complexity. I think it's also true when the stakes are really high. If you're preparing congressional testimony, you don't want your AI coach to do that.

And the other thing that I will say is I think there's a level of, kind of a white glove, high touch aspect to human coaching. You know, it is a, an authentic human to human relationship that is different than any kind of relationship. You can form with an AI. There are aspects of it that feel similar with an AI, but it isn't the same.

I think people recognize that. So I see a really big space long into the future for human coaches particularly in the C-suite and, you know, with more senior leaders where the cost of a human coach isn't as big of a consideration and where the value is worth it.

Steve Smith:

Okay. Yeah, that, I think that's a very, I think that's an accurate and nuanced assessment of it because we think about, okay, the, you know, you're right. If you're the CEO of a large company, you absolutely would want to have that one-on-one human experience. And the, I get, I think the awareness and discernment that comes along with a coach that operates at that level with all of the training experience, perspectives and guardrails that just come along with the professionalism that a person like that would have, you know, but on the other side of it, you think about like, you know what we've seen with, companies that were trying to scale up coaching before AI was, okay, we've got a way to do it, but it's still dependent on having access to enough human coaches and we're gonna run out of those.

And so it became something that wasn't scalable and then suddenly with AI now it completely is scalable. So I guess, and from that regard, yeah, I mean it's, there's there's some opportunity to maybe. Put coaching in the hands of people who wouldn't be able to access it either from a cost or an availability perspective before you know, do you think that AI itself could become a meaningful coaching tool? I mean, at all levels? I mean, do you think that well, I guess, let me ask you this. What do you think good AI coaching either does look like or should look like?

Eric Nitzberg:

Oh wow. Well, just first to touch on the prior question that you were about to ask. I actually do think that. There will be partnerships between human coaches and AI coaches in the C-suite. And so for folks say 10 years from now who, who are interested in a human coach, their organization is, you know, ready to pay for one, et cetera, there may be really compelling reasons for them to also have an AI coach.

And then it becomes, again, it becomes kind of triaging what's the best use of the human because of the lived experience and the. Wisdom, if you will, and you know, all of those unique human capabilities. And then what's the best use of the AI coach, which is probably around data and ubiquity, you know, constant availability awareness.

I mean, you could. Eventually you could have an AI coach, to get to your question that you asked. I mean, I think a great AI coach and it's a little scary because of the privacy and big brother sort of issues. But I think a great AI coach would have full visibility into your calendar. All of your email, all of your slack, your, you know, all of your world from a business perspective, as well as being plugged into all of the data, internal data about your company that's relevant to you.

And then you could have conversations with that coach, not just about, Hey, I'm, you know, my confidence is low this week. Can you help me with that? But also like, Hey, I've been working on listening and asking better questions based on all the data that you've seen over the last week. You know, how am I doing?

What have you noticed in the video calls that you've been observing? What have you noticed? In all of my email communication. And so you could have a dashboard, you could have real time prompts, you could have. You know, like deep conversations with your AI coach about those things. But my hope would be that your human coach has access to that, or at least some like portion of that would be relevant to them, so that when you're talking about more existential issues, ethical issues nuanced human relationship issues that the human coach would also have that context.

That doesn't exist. That does not exist yet. By the way, I just looked into this and the AI coaches, most of them do not have much of a good interface where they can interact with the human coach. So we're probably a year or two out before that. Some of them are starting to have that, but we're probably a ways out before that starts to get developed.

Steve Smith:

And I think that can be very interesting because when you think about the access that an AI coach could have to data, like from assessments, oh, Steve, here's all the people on your team and, you know, you need to remember that Bob's preferred communication style is this, and this is what puts him in his stress behavior. And, you know, it being able to do that for, you know, an entire team of 10 or 12 people and get to some really granular, nuanced approaches to that just in a way that, you know, I mean, even the best human coach can't keep all of those things in their head at any time. I could. I could absolutely. See a benefit for that. But one thing I was also kind of wondering is, you know, just in terms of looking at AI coaching as a net positive, is, do you find that people, or do you think that people are more willing to be candid with an AI coach because they know at the end of the day it's just a bot and it's not a person who sit is sitting there and may or may not be judging them.

Eric Nitzberg:

Yeah, I do think that's true. I mean, that's the challenge there has to do with privacy concerns or security concerns. So I think even that question, there's some complexity in the answer because. I have seen some studies that suggest that what you just said is exactly right. That people are more willing to open up or be like, test out ideas when there's no other human involved because there's zero consequences.

But on the other hand, again it kind of gets to the level of the leader and what's at stake. Even though these tools are very secure from a technology perspective, you know, SOC two, type two and all, you know, GDPR certification and all of these things, I don't think that I. They're trusted.

Yet from a technical perspective there is at least one company that I work with where I keep in touch with the head of coaching all the time, and they've decided not to use a third party AI coach. Broadly, they're building their own. It's almost a hundred percent about concerns with privacy data, et cetera.

Because basically you're giving all of these confidential conversations to some other company so you can trust the, maybe the certifications to an extent but do you really want all of that data living somewhere else outside of your control? You know? And I think that's gonna be a major barrier to adoption for AI coaching.

Steve Smith:

Well isn't, I mean, isn't that kind of the heart of the AI issue with humanity is the trust issue? Do we really trust that this is something that is working for my benefit and, you know, I guess, you know, the joke that keeps coming up is the only, you know, the only entities that know that people will just say anything to are God and Google.

And I guess now you substitute Google for AI.

And so that's, and that's not a, that's not a small thing.

Eric Nitzberg:

No. No, it's not. It's not. I think it's a new reality. Although I would point out though that trust among humans is also a very complex topic.

Steve Smith:

Well, if I final question for you what is the leadership quality you think is most correlated with success?

Eric Nitzberg:

I think it's listening. I think a willingness to listen. It is not sufficient. It doesn't solve for everything. There's a bunch of qualities that are needed, but I, but it is the first thing that comes to mind when you ask that question, especially in the world today. I think we have a desperate need for more listening and more empathy.

I think people talk a lot and they don't have an opportunity to really feel heard. I think the leader that can help people to truly feel like they've been heard has a competitive strategic advantage over the leader who doesn't have that ability.

Steve Smith:

That's wise words and a great way to end our conversation. Eric, this has been fantastic. Thanks so much for spending time with us.

Eric Nitzberg:

Thanks, Steve. Really enjoyed it.

Steve Smith:

AI can make coaching available to everyone. It still can't sit across the table from a CEO living through the hardest year of their career.

Eric argues AI coaches are already good at scale and availability. They're also good at spotting patterns across thousands of conversations that no human coach could hold in their head. A human coach, he says, brings something else: years of history with a client, and judgment that only comes from an actual relationship.

An AI coach can be available at two in the morning and remember every conversation you've ever had with it. A human coach can tell when something you just said doesn't match the look on your face, and knows you well enough to call it out. The leaders who benefit most will be the ones who use both instead of betting everything on one side.

Eric's answer to what matters most in leadership is listening. He argues it works as a real edge for the leaders who take it seriously.

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe to Work Tech Weekly on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube. And I'll see you next time.